i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
That was the thread Slimboy. I discovered my post on it:
"So...after years of proudly and arrogantly announcing that only Jehovah's Witnesses have "the truth," they now are embracing spiritual relativism. In essence, they are saying that is doesn't matter what you believe; what matter is that you are attached to the correct group."
It's OK. I have enough print material the make the point. Again, THANK YOU all for the help.
i am looking for court cases and news reports on underage children being denied blood transfusions and as a result either having the court intervene or death.
any report especially 2008-2011 will work very well.. also any jw publication that says jw's die rather than accepting blood.
also any jw publication that encourages this practice in regards children especially official documents and recent publications (2005-2011 or whenever the last doctrinal change was).. .
Reading through old magazines and crap, the slimy weasels word their articles so darn vague on those topics it's hard to get an interpretation without teaching the whole JW doctrine and what the insider words mean. The same thing on disfellowshipping, what it means, when it applies, minors etc - it's not in a single chapter of the Bible Teach book.
Get Dr. Muramoto's Part 1. He clearly and succinctly explains it all using Watchtower quotes. Besides, his authoritative work will carry more weight with the court.
i am looking for court cases and news reports on underage children being denied blood transfusions and as a result either having the court intervene or death.
any report especially 2008-2011 will work very well.. also any jw publication that says jw's die rather than accepting blood.
also any jw publication that encourages this practice in regards children especially official documents and recent publications (2005-2011 or whenever the last doctrinal change was).. .
Dr. Diekema starts his article with this case. I spoke with the Chief Counsel for Seattle Children's Hospital, and he was stunned by this ruling.
[1] Cherie Black, Boy Dies of Leukemia After Refusing Treatment for Religious Reasons, Seattle PI.com, November 28, 2007, http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Boy-dies-of-leukemia-after-refusing-treatment-for-1257094.php . Accessed 12.18.11.
i am looking for court cases and news reports on underage children being denied blood transfusions and as a result either having the court intervene or death.
any report especially 2008-2011 will work very well.. also any jw publication that says jw's die rather than accepting blood.
also any jw publication that encourages this practice in regards children especially official documents and recent publications (2005-2011 or whenever the last doctrinal change was).. .
The absolutely most recent information available:Douglas S. Diekema, M.D., Adolescent Refusal of Lifesaving Treatment: Are We Asking The Right Questions?, Adolescent Medicine: State of the Art Reviews, Vol. 22, Issue 2, (August 2011).
Dr. Muramoto's trilogy is some of the most damning. Here are the citations for two of his articles:
Osamu Muramoto, M.D., Bioethics of the Refusal of Blood by Jehovah’s Witnesses: Part 1. Should Bioethical Deliberation Consider Dissidents’ Views?, Journal of Medical Ethics, (1998), pp. 223-230.
[1] Osamu Muramoto, M.D., Bioethics of the Refusal of Blood by Jehovah’s Witnesses: Part 2. A Novel Approach Based on Rational Non-interventional Paternalism, Journal of Medical Ethics, (1998), pp. 295-301.
Mary Irene Slonina, State v. Physicians Et. Al.: Legal Standards Guiding the Mature Minor Doctrine and the Bioethical Judgment of Pediatricians in Life-Sustaining Medical Treatment, 17 Health Matrix 181, 193, (Winter 2007).
Martin T. Harvey, Ph.D., Adolescent Competency and the Refusal of Medical Treatment, 13 Health Matrix 297, 308 (Summer 2003).
Ann Eileen Driggs, R.N, The Mature Minor Doctrine: Do Adolescents Have the Right to Die?, 11 Health Matrix 687, 705-06 (2001) (citing Elizabeth Cauffman and Laurence Steinberg, The Cognitive & Affective Influences of Adolescent Decision-Making, 68 Temple L. Rev. 1763, 1788 (1995)).
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
Now, I'm wondering if I just linked it clearly in my mind, and that actual magazine was less clear. I think it might be this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/130394/1/April-15-WT-Society-acknowledges-some-find-its-teachings-hard-to-accept
However, in my travels back in DB time, I did find this tidbit that I posted. I was still "in" and listened by phone to the service meeting that discussed the QFR that told JWs to not have independent study groups. I taped it and posted the transcript. Wow is it a trippy read!!!
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
paragraph 13 on.
Thank you for you well structured, systematically consistent comments, Blondie. It makes research all the more easier.
Something else y'all might want to look are the articles in July 15, 2011 WT, enter God's rest and it's subsequent article.
That's not it, and I have those, but I'm still searching. Thank you all for the help.
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
No this one was in a Watchtower study, I am positive about it, because I remember having a conversation with a brother about it who was convinced it was proof that Armageddon must be near, and he was expecting the GB to issue weird but very important instructions any moment.
Agreed. I too have spent several hours using various search term combinations both in the CD-rom AND in site searches here because we had a long thread discussing it.
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
Good compilation. The last one is pretty close, but I think there was a more recent one that was even more specific. Surely someone can remember where it was?
Thanks Atlantis--I footnoted several of them. Dropoffyourkeylee (and get yourself free) I can drop audio such as that in a footnote also, so thanks. Blondie, I used the Watchtower, 09, p.16 quote in the actual text of the article. ; )
But Slimboy is correct. I distinctly remember a very clear statement to the effect that even if one KNOWS FOR A FACT the GB is wrong, they will be judged by Jehovah for how well they follow the incorrect direction. I remember it shocked me because it totally changed the Bible's criteria for judging from understanding and doing to the correct thing to doing the thing you know to be wrong simply because someone told you to.
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
Here's a gem!
***
w009/1pp.9-10pars.15-16ReflecttheMentalAttitudeofChrist***
15
During the first century, some who listened to Jesus displayed an improper attitude. On one occasion, Jesus said something that was difficult to understand. In response, “many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: ‘This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?’” Those who spoke in this way clearly had a wrong attitude. And their wrong attitude led to their ceasing to listen to Jesus. The record says: “Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.” Did all have a wrong attitude? No. The record continues: “Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: ‘You do not want to go also, do you?’ Simon Peter answered him: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to?’” In effect, Peter then answered his own question: “You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:60, 66-68) What a fine attitude! When confronted with explanations or refinements in understanding of the Scriptures that we may at first find difficult to accept, would it not be good to display the attitude shown by Peter? How foolish it would be to stop serving Jehovah or to speak in a manner contrary to “the pattern of healthful words” simply because some things are initially difficult to understand!—2 Timothy 1:13.16
The Jewish religious leaders of the first century failed to manifest the mental attitude that Jesus had. Their resolute determination not to listen to Jesus was demonstrated when he raised Lazarus from the dead. For any with a right attitude, that miracle would have been proof positive that Jesus was sent from God. However, we read: “Consequently the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanhedrin together and began to say: ‘What are we to do, because this man performs many signs? If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.’” Their solution? “From that day on they took counsel to kill him.” Besides plotting to kill Jesus, they set out to destroy the living evidence of his being a miracle worker. “The chief priests now took counsel to kill Lazarus also.” (John 11:47, 48, 53; 12:9-11) How repugnant it would be if we were to foster a similar attitude and become irritated or upset over things about which we really should rejoice! Yes, and how dangerous!
i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.
would someone please let me know where that is?.
jt.
I don't know where it is, but I am sure there was a statement a couple of years ago along the lines of warning that the governing body might give instructions the reasons for which are not fully understood or that are difficult to follow but that faithful Witnesses should follow the instructions anyway
That's the one I'm thinking of. Thanks Slimboy because I couldn't quite remember how it was phrased.
